Curse

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 04, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

If the monk keeps his circle aggro range, and didnt act like a jack ass... he wouldnt get the aggro... if you just stand back, let the warriors go in... they'll get the aggro, and keep it... blame yourself.

The ai goes after the weakest armor level, and monk going first in line of lowest armor level... the thing is... monks/ele's should just stand back, like they're suppose to... you know... act smart... but oh yea... let's just blame the ai for having a purpose... let's blame the ai for being "smart" when all it does is exploit your stupidity... stand back, they wont phase you... if you've ever watched... they normaly run a little past the warriors, to check for monk (by getting your circle into the red dot, they'll go after you, rather then the warrior), but if they run that little bit past the warriors, and dont see a monk/lower armor lvl... they'll attack the warrior...

**bottom line, blame yourself, not the ai.**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zemelett

while we are disin' on the code, have you healer monks noticed that the code for item drops must be something like this;

if (player == healer monk)
dont assign any items.

or maybe perhaps it like this

if (damage == 0 or less than warrior)
dont assign any items.

It pisses me off that #1 if a player on a team dies its the monks fault, #2 the monk is by far one of the hardest classes to play #3 a teams success in most missions is strictly dependent on the skill of the monk; and yet because we do the least ammount of dmg to the enemies becuase we are always healing our teammates but yet we don't get near the ammout of item drops. Its bloody irritating.

By what's been said many times... it's on a random drop code... you get the same exact items as them or roughly close to by the end of the mission/quest... You just sound stupid to me, really... and stupid to anyone else that actually knows.

Romac · Jun 07, 2005, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

**bottom line, blame yourself, not the ai.**

you are wrong

i started this thread because the npc monk was getting ALL the aggro. 100% focussed fire. So i CAN blame the ai. If they want to create code that says "if teammate = monk then aggro esle look for monk" then they also need to create code that tells the npc monk not to kamikaze into a group of enemies and to stay back as far as possible.

And staying back doesn't seem to work either...i distinctly remember staying back with my monk at elona's with an all player team and i was still a bull magnet. The bulls would dodge every single team member and beeline for me.

my original statement remains unswayed "aggro IS dumb"

PieXags · Jun 07, 2005, 12:12 PM // 12:12

I...don't...really notice that they always go after the healer...

It's usually there's one on me, a couple on the fighters, and then maybe one...escapes and attacks the healer. The only place I remember most of them ever going after Alesia was in Ascalon.

If that's your case, get out of ascalon. They're not killing my healers in Thunderhead Keep.

And they weren't in the desert, or in Kryta. Only in Ascalon do I remember having to protect Alesia.

Juhanah · Jun 07, 2005, 12:19 PM // 12:19

It more like "attack Alesia, if Alesia=0 attack Lina, if Lina=0 attack Orion, if Orion=0 attack whatever" I play a monk and i play a lot with NPC.. I rarely get targeted.

When i play with my friend, i lead and lure/call target.. I get targeted until my friend and the rest of NPC run in then monster rarely target me again.

The problem with Henchmen is they don't move even when they get attacked. I was doing Ring of Fire with my friend and a bunch of NPC and all the Henchmen were always staying in place when Lava Imps were doing Meteor Shower.. It was kinda dumb. Kinda the same with Poisoned Swamp and Lava.. They just stand in letting themself die.
I never have much trouble playing with NPC.. Just sometime they are stupid. This is when i try to get in a real party

Raiddinn Beatdropper · Jun 07, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Mobs attack the lowest AC player first nearly every time which in most cases is the monk.

You could try having group members temporarily move down to a lower suit of armor?

Or

You could try to send the warrior in with a good stance till everything gets on him, then the rest run up and engage and they usually wont turn.

Also, Alesia makes me mad when she always makes sure to stay *ahead* of the party for some reason, other than that she is ok.

Tsunamii Starshine

chowdah · Jun 07, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

My problem with the Monster vs Healer (or whatever) is that its one sided - if the mob AI can be programmed smart enuff to act like a person in PvP then why can't henchmen?

If the mobs always zerg my healer then how about the healer taking the smart tactic?

Instead they stand there and get maimed. Its idiotic.

squakMix · Jun 07, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I can deal with most of the aggro usually (I have a level 20 mo/me primary), but what pisses me off is that most people aren't even aware that I'm being attacked when I am. MOST people don't look at the party health window and even take account the fact that their only way of surviving is quickly dying.

It also pisses me off when I get completely REDICULOUS aggro from mobs in missions; If some ranger way way way ahead of the group comes running in shooting a group of scorpions it just runs by him and everyone to go kill me. A few seconds of not attacking it and the aggro is off me by then though, so usually I can get away with just running it into another team member that I can then heal.

Teufel Eldritch · Jun 07, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

As a Monk(Mo/N completed game) I can tell you yes...we are often the first target. I cant tell you how many times monsters have ran right past the frontline of warriors thru a second line of casters to get to me in the very back.

Poppinjay · Jun 07, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Not always towards the healer. Minotaurs seem to head straight for any mesmer in the area, even if they are not attacking. Also a lot of the mobs seem to head for casters generally.

It might be possible that some mobs have a "most hated profession" or something.

If you have a good team, then the tanks should be trying to take the aggro off you while you run as far away as you can and still effectively cast your spells.

But forget doing much with henchmen. The henchmen are underpowered and overstupid.

Why can't I direct a henchman to attack? It sucks as a caster. You need to attack first and first draw the agro and THEN (if you are lucky) the henchmen will help. Sometimes they just stand around confused.

Pop

Poppinjay · Jun 07, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Ah, well if it is based on AC then that would explain it.

But it is yet another reason why warrior are overpowered.

Pop

CtrlAltDel · Jun 07, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

I want to know what game all these people are playing that dont notice the aggro towards monks. You guys must be in some caster heavy groups, as when I'm playing aggro always goes to monks and casters, usually monks first. Although the build I see get messed up the most is the Me/Mo class

Sciros Darkblade · Jun 07, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Warriors need monks and monks need warriors. So everyone has just as important a role.

But yeah, the enemy AI is "smart" in that it will try to take out what is supporting the warriors before it goes after the warriors. Honestly it makes our (warrior) job that much easier. Honestly I don't know why I don't take frenzy with me as a skill half the time.

Tarrant · Jun 07, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I used to think the aggro code was simplistic, but after complaining in another thread, I have read comments that made me consider whether the aggro is actually more sophisticated than a hate-list style of aggro. I was always trying to draw aggro by dumping damage to get their attention, then swearing half the time because it seemed to do no good. If mobs turned on massive damage-dealers, that would be more appropriate since they would represent a threat that should take precedence over mere weaklings. My jury is still out on how smart the aggro AI is.

The problem with the apparent coding (where either healers or lowest AC are targetted, depending on interpretation) is that it makes it harder for non-healers to play without other players. A non-healer will typically take Alesia, who will of course be lower level, and if no lower players are in the group, Alesia will get most of the aggro most of the time. And it gets even worse if the player is neither healer nor tank, since Stefan (and his kin) can't be commanded to run over and get between the monk and the enemy. Obviously this is a problem that isn't apparent in PvP.

Rieselle · Jun 07, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

But when there's 6-7 monsters beating on Alesia, it's a lost cause. She wont run, and I can't draw the aggro of all.

A lot of people are complaining about this - but it just seems to me to be one of those "some characters are better in some situations than others".

I play a E/w who specialises in melee combat and player-centred AOE attacks, whirlwind and aftershock, and ward against melee. By staying close to Alesia, I get all the melee monsters nicely grouped up in a bunch, and I kill them much more effectively. With the ward and my knockdown, Alesia gets enough breathing space to keep herself alive pretty easily. Unfortunately she dies pretty quick when archers and casters are focusing on her, so that's my weakness. But warriors have skills like "Raise Shields" and other shouts that improve nearby allies' armour, right? If you want to defend your vulnerable allies, you need to take along defensive skills - probably most people just stick with their normal build and then complain when their henchmen don't take care of themselves like a human would.

(And if you don't have any decent defensive skills available, then that's your weakness, you don't defend allies very well. :P )

I like the monster AI. The only change I might make is to add more variability to monster behaviour - different types of monsters behave differently, and different groups of the same type also behave slightly differently. Since most encounters seem to be manually placed by their level designers (ie. we dont have completely random wandering monsters) it'd be cool if they added some set pieces too - like archers who will run up a cliff and fire down at you if they can, warriors who will try to "pull" a stupid group back towards massive reinforcements, etc